Having downloaded and read through the playtest material, and spoken to several folks who have playtested it, here’s my impression so far:
First, there is a very strong “let’s pretend 3rd and 4th editions never existed” vibe. Some of that is to pander to the Old School Revolution, some of that seems an acknowledgement that they won’t win back most 3.x fans from Pathfinder and/or Hasbro wants to avoid the OGL like the plague, some of it is dodging the missteps of 4th edition.
Using “Keep on the Borderlands” as the playtest adventure sends the above message very clearly.
I am amused by people who have stated they dislike “rules-lite” systems but are eating up D&D Next like candy.
I am amused by people who don’t like FATE or its Aspect system(s), but are eating up Backgrounds and Themes. Yes, they are crunchier than Aspects, and they do work differently. Yet I predict articles in magazines and numerous blog posts detailing how, with a subtle nudge, they can be used like Aspects.
I also predict many splat books dedicated to Backgrounds and Themes, assuming Hasbro allows third party publishers to play in this pool in any meaningful way.
Using cantrips and orisons as At-Will Powers is a hack my Pathfinder group has been using for two years now, and I’m sure we’re not alone.
I know that the whole point is to make it feel revolutionary by making it feel familiar and decidedly un-revolutionary, but it doesn’t feel revolutionary. It’s comfortable, and it’s nice, but I’m not getting excited about running right out and spending a boatload of money on a new edition. I feel like I can hack most of the subtle changes into Pathfinder, 2nd edition, or any of the retro-clones I already own. Maybe that’s the point.
Even if this were the greatest thing since sliced bread, I’m unlikely to spend a bundle re-buying a bunch of books I already own. I’ve pretty much made up my mind that I’ll die using the current editions of Pathfinder and Risus for all my gaming needs, and I’m already building up a resistance to the inevitable 2nd edition of both of those games.
Okay, maybe if they publish an all-inclusive Rules Cyclopedia version of D&D Next for a reasonable price (under $40 is probably reasonable, $30 or less might be might be my personal sweet spot) I might pick it up. But there’s no way I’m spending $100+ bucks for a new Player’s Handbook, Dungeon Master’s Guide and Monster Manual.
Okay, maybe the Monster Manual, but the art had better be awesome. Like all-Tony DeTerlizzi full-color plates awesome. At which point I’m buying an art book and not a monster manual.
I’m more interested in Keep on the Borderlands as the playtest adventure. If they decide to re-issue old adventures, retro-fitted for the next edition rules but largely left intact (maybe with some new art to compliment the original art), I might pick up some of those. To run using Pathfinder or Risus.
I know that the point it to sort of reconcile, allow for various styles of play, and try to accomodate old grodnards and new players, but I still see edition wars on the horizon. OSR folk will see no point in this, or nitpick something. 3rd edition fans will stick with Pathfinder. 4th edition fans will feel betrayed. Yadda yadda yadda. I lost friends in the last edition wars because I did not lovingly embrace 4th edition as deeply as some felt I should, which is another reason my interest in this is weak and my desire to remain distant is strong. Edition wars are as certain and death and taxes.
We all new this wouldn’t be breaking ground. And frankly I think that’s a good thing. They need to be doing the things D&D did best originally while taking from a few of the lessons learned by some of the more groundbreaking concepts this decade. Streamlined rules with a few narrative tweaks is good and quite frankly it gives me hope that I’ll enjoy this one.
I think if someone offered to run it, I’d play. My major barrier to entry is hundreds of dollars worth of gaming material I already own and will never use. I need a new edition of anything like I need another hole in my head.
The only reason my gaming soc. ran 4th ed. was because one of the guys bought the triple pack slip cased bundle and refused to let it be a waste of money. No one- not man-jack of his players – had anything to say about it other than that they would have been happier rocking something either pre-3rd or Pathfinder.
Seeing a new edition just reminds me of all the other games I’ve bought and barely touched since.
Really? You’re NOT looking forward to 2E Risus? Even if it (like 1E) is free? I’m interested in what S. John Ross is doing that could improve what is in my opinion the best rules-lite system available. If for nothing else than curiosity’s sake.
It must be noted that I am quite comfortable with the current system and the Companion, but I have to admit, I’m very curious….
Curious, yes. But it’s not necessary, and I always fear fixing things that ain’t broken.
I run a weekly 4E campaign of D&D. I also managed to get my group to try out these D&D Next rules. As a D&D consumer I must admit that my group was stoked with the rules changes over 4th Edition. There is a small contingent of members that have been trying to get us to switch to Pathfinder. Had D&D not announced Next we probably would as we are all suffering 4E fatigue at this point. I was feeling it 6 months ago, but now my players are too.
D&D Next removes most of the things we find annoying. Stripping out the tactical combat and simplifying character creation. Our group had discussed reverting back to 2nd Edition as well since that was the last time we remember there being very simple characters you could toss together in less than an hour. Of course none of us had very fond memories of THACO or loss of level monsters. Amusing anecdotes but not anything like “Hey I really miss that old style vampire!”
Anyways, although you may not feel that D&D Next offers anything to you for those of us that have not switched over to Pathfinder but actually stayed with 4th Edition this system both addresses a lot of things that have worn us out but keeps some interesting bits we enjoyed (healing, powers, basic gameplay).
Just my 2 cents. Your post was still an interesting read. I agree that there is nothing offered here to bring lost players back. But it will convert a portion of fatigued current users.
For me, the solution for D&D fatigue was the same as for mah jongg fatigue, or monopoly fatigue, or baseball fatigue — I don’t need a new set of rules, I just need to play something else for a while.
So they are treating third and fourth edition like the second Highlander movie, eh? Lol!
Hey, Highlander 2 had John C McGinley in it, making it officially Not All Bad. In some alternate universe he didn’t get that role and decided to quit acting.
A move back towards the simplicity of 1st Edition, incorporating many of the improvements of 2nd Edition rules wouldn’t be such a bad thing, but the voluminous amount of material in 2nd Edition would need to be pared down so that everything you need to know to play every class fits in one player’s handbook. Each class shouldn’t require their own. For someone who plays multi/dual class characters or multiple characters, the investment in all that extra material makes it burdensome. Finding a happy medium somewhere between 1st and 2nd edition with all the best aspects of both and none of the worst ones of either would probably be the best way to go.
There comes a time in the endless cycle of suffering that is edition wars, videogame engine upgrades, movie reboots, etc, when a creative person has to ask themself, \”Why do I spend all my time, energy, and money consuming other people\’s creative work instead of making my own?\”
True revolution can\’t be forced from the outside; it has to start in your heart and your mind. It\’s unfortunate, but not buying a new thing just because it\’s new, or making an alternative when the world presents you with none, are still revolutionary concepts in this day and age.
As an inveterate D&D hater I\’ve been desperately trying to muster some outrage over D&D Next but it ain\’t happening. D&D, for me, has become like one of those weird floaters in your eye: every time I try to focus on it, it scoots out of sight. Congratulations, D&D. You\’ve upgraded yourself from a clunky overpriced excuse for a game to elusive eyeball crud.
I’m afraid they lost me after two weeks or so trying to get the playtest material I signed up for months ago. That said I never ported over to 4E and being a bit of a luddite am reasonably happy with 3.5 and D20 Microlite.
4E was far too aimed at the PC RPG gamers out there (you know who you are) and really became a parody of what I began playing way back in the mid-seventies. If I want to play a 4E style game I can pick up Munchkin D20 for £10 on E-bay. Hey bring on that plutonium dragon ba-aa-aby!
Perhaps if they focused on producing beautifully designed and well-crafted campaigns and scenarios instead of “it’s been a few years lets change the whole bloody landscape… again” they might keep a few more of us veterans interested.
Games Workshop are going through the same bloody thing with the impending 6th Edition of Warhammer 40K. Another excuse to fleece the peons eh?
Traditional old grognard whinge fest complete!
Craig.
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